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FSS WSC Engage SR3 Early Junchoon Ulicle; Five Star Stories
Topic Started: Mar 30 2018, 12:01 AM (2,109 Views)
ingenhk
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I've washed and starting to pin.
Just now notice the feet on the SR3 are also bent, the heel appear more on the inner side, not center.
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Started to debate about whether it is a mistake or intentional, and then I realized it is also like that on the Gastness Temple, I've already built the thing without noticing it, I should feel ashamed.
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Other FSS heels are aligned to the center, it would make sense to people when they imagine something that is suppose to support weight, would be on the center like the red line.
The green line is how Ikushima sees it.
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MH is always standing with a toe-out, it's not noticeable on photo, I tried to understand the difference it would make.
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Now I've figured out why the heels on the Jade Temple appear on the inner side. when toe-out is accounted for, this is how the footprint would look like.
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Things like this are done with an intent and understanding, it can be explained.
When you find something you can't comprehend immediately, it's probably YOU are the problem. So instead of whining and complaining "this thing is wrong, it is mess up", just take it in, give it time, enlightenment will come to you someday.
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Pretty much all pin heel type of WSC kits after the Speed Mirage are like this, just that on the Neptune or Phantom it's less noticeable, so yes it is intentional.
Posted Image(J.Temple, SR3, Berlin 2)

Feet with the heel and toe aligned in a straight line is like, the angle of the heel would be like how Katoki would draw it. When people are looking at the details under feet, they are not looking at the thought and care Iku put there.
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The impression upon looking at the line art, the first thing Ikushima noticed was the Nippon colors, the shoulder, BACK OF THE HEAD, and the nostalgia for the Vol2 Junchoon etc, is actualized in the WSC SR3. I'm going to fulfill that Iku vision.
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For instance if the Junchoon/SR3 is painted in metallic like these, it's not the same vision/imagery.
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This.
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http://yuzen.net/kyoto/top/aoi.htm

Edited by ingenhk, Apr 26 2018, 06:09 AM.
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Zip
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Quote:
 
When you find something you can't comprehend immediately, it's probably YOU are the problem. So instead of whining and complaining "this thing is wrong, it is mess up", just take it in, give it time, enlightenment will come to you someday.
Well said. It's a philosophy that should be applied to everything Nagano and FSS-related. Really nice catch with those asymmetrical feet, not something you usually see in a Volks kit, and probably and alien concept to most Gunpla builders.

I still dislike the proportional choices on this kit, but I look forward to your build. I want to see what Ikushima has to say in his own sculpt with no modifications.
https://twitter.com/TheBangDoll2989
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ingenhk
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Yep, I thought about modding the line on the lower arm, but now decided to keep most thing 'as is'. I'll likely have to mod the left elbow though, because of the pose I have in mind, but proportion and everything would be kept the same.
Thanks for watching.
Edited by ingenhk, Mar 30 2018, 01:41 AM.
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lauj76
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Good observation and info. Btw is Engage SR3 and SR3 Jade Temple the same? I see the weapons seem to be different but the MH itself looks like the same.
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ingenhk
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In canon, Engage SR3, Jade Temple, Saylay Junchoon is the same thing.
But the appearance is changed in Vol12, only the head and shoulder remained the same.
Jade Temple is just how WSC labled the Vol.12 version.
and Engage SR3 or Saylay Junchoon is the labeling on the line art version.

Lineart version, the head, shoulder, chest and skirt are reuse/update of the Vol.2 Junchoon.
the legs are that of the MKII
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Vol.12, only the head and shoulder remained, the rest is changed.
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Top: The detail (green lines) are all higher on the left side, it's not a problem when the legs are posed apart.
but the blue circle is making the left leg lean forward.
Bottom: reduced the blue circle area, without changing the spacing of the green lines.
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The official demo has the part missing on the left side.
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After correcting, the space between the red lines, and the space between the green lines are the same on both side, except the greens are higher on the left.
The reason I don't shorten the left side to make them equal in height, because the height is not the issue, it was the blue area above making the shin lean forward that is the issue.
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Instance like this making the artifact less apparent is the priority, just eliminate the part that is interfering with the posture
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Maruky working on the Schpeltor, the SR3 got into the shot
https://twitter.com/sakanakozakana/status/979544772372131840
Edited by ingenhk, Mar 31 2018, 04:10 AM.
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lauj76
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Thanks a lot for the detail info.
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ingenhk
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Things to pin before the ankle and hips.
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Listerline for support
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After a couple of attempts
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At first I tried to tilt the chest up as much as possible. But it was a bit much, and the legs had to lean forward, so it was bending back and forth, turned out more short. So I undo it.
Now it is level with a bit of tilt, at an angle that is undetectable to the eyes.
(looking like the Vatshu)
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Then I tried to spread the legs wider, but then I notice it leaves a larger gap here, from some angles you will see through it. Right now I opted for a narrower spread, to make that gap less open.
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The reason I want that up tilt, is because the head in this sculpt is looking down a little, according to the lineart. When people look at photo from the front, the head seems tall and narrow, that's because you are looking at the top instead of the face.
Here is the difference with one from a lower angle.
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Compare mine with this one, the heads are angled similarly, you could see just a little of the eyes, .Except the other one is taken from the ground up, mine is from the waist.
That means if it was taken from the front, waist level, the head of other one would look tall/narrow.
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Emporor even raised the back of the head, god I really hate seeing this. I rarely call out god but this time. someday Jesus would be like 'John! what the fuxk, what?, but it's cool.
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I decided not to use that part behind the ankles, that part is for when the shin is leaning forward. Since mine leans back, the part would make the ankle taller, and the feet would appear bigger.
BTW dat turned feet/heel
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Cutting mat for reference. the heels are 4.5cm apart, the toe and the heels is toe out within the 3.5cm mark. For checking the symmetry.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 3 2018, 01:56 AM.
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ingenhk
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Put on the shoulders last night, supposed to put on the skirt next, but...
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...but I made a mistake by removing that details along with a nub nearby.
See there is that triangular ridge.
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BTW check out how Iku interpret those seemingly carelessly drawn lines. The quality of this is on par with the Vatshu, or Ashura, just that the design itself is simple.
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Here's that triangle on the sculpt, left side.
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on the right, I had to repair it.
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The balance of the spear. picture didn't show well but it's off the table, balancing on the finger
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 4 2018, 12:52 PM.
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electric indigo
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As always, thanks for sharing the experience.

Looking at the profile pic, does this kit have an exceptionally high waistline?
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ingenhk
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Indeed, it is different to the other Engage, it has longer torso, pulled up waist band
looks like Travolta paid photobucket
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Monsterist76
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I would've interpreted that detail on the crotch piece as a scooped out indentation, the same as the one on the front skirt you showed. I'm by no means saying Ikushima is wrong. To incorporate such an inconsequential detail into the sculpt in any fashion is impressive.

I'll be following your build with interest again. I'm sure I'll pick up some more useful tips along the way, too.
Serenity is not freedom from the storm, but peace within the storm.
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ingenhk
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Thanks for looking.

here's the Volks MM on those area, also check out that wrist guard
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The drawing is simply like..
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Iku roll this out. I cranked up the contrast to show the shade better.
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Like other Iku sculpt, the right side of the hip block is thicker, as a result, the skirt is tighter on the left, it was tucking in the crotch piece if I put them on as is. The picture is after some attempt for correcting it.
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I cheated with some spacing out on the right side, and 'squeeze' the left side toward the back.
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Raised rear.
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Junchoon workshop
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 5 2018, 11:11 AM.
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ingenhk
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Bending part for the elbow. Supposedly it is for bending at a radical angle
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If I wish to bend just a little, like 30 degree, that part would make the arm a bit longer
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Without the bending part, the arm is stiff
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I want it to bend as well as rotate in a little, to hide the lower arm silhouette.
(on the right arm I'll hide it with the spear).
I trimmed the bending apart so that it maintains the length when it's bending at 30 degree.
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I'll putty it up later.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 6 2018, 06:29 AM.
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ingenhk
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Deciding the position of the spear.
The red line is the viewing angle at the leg head on, the green is slightly to the side, between those is where I found the best for looking at Iku's legs.
The spear would have to be not blocking it. Either put it more to the side or more in.
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The lower arm, beside bending forward slightly, I also bend it to the side. for reason, the silhouette on the inner side is one straight line on the actual piece. I thought of modifying at first, but decided to simply twisting the pose to alter the line.
If this build turn out looking better than other builds people have seen, they want to know what's the difference, and if my answer is "I modded it", they'll be like "Oh, of course it would be".
but then if I told them, it is the same god damn thing from 2001! It just hadn't been exploited of its potential. Then people will be blown away.
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Though I expect some of these will be nullified after putting on the wrist guard and sword block. Also the shield will be obscuring the legs and skirt.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 7 2018, 01:46 PM.
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ingenhk
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Beside the spear, I also have to decide how to place the shield, it's going to block the view of the expression on the left hand, and some of the leg.
This is just a test, only a thumb is visible. The leg, there is not much I could do to show the outline, unless the shield is held vertically, I'll probably opt for just showing the blue patch on the calf, that's more important than the line.
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That middle skirt should be raised like the side skirt, the kit is a little bit different, it needs some minor mod.
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After putting on the spear, the weight on the back makes it tend to fall backward, if the table is not level, or something poke it, it will fall. So I changed the left arm to hold the shield more to the front as counter weight. At first I was debating if the left arm should be more forward or back, now this settle it. I was considering placing the arm more to the back would allow the leg to be seen, but that's not going to be seen anyway. Placing the arm more to the front would make the thing looks wider, but after putting on the shield, the difference it not noticeable.
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I'll still have to pin the shield to find out how it work.
I dug up the digital scale along with my left brain from under the bed.
The culprit, the back of the spear weight 18g.
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11g for the barrel, that means about 7g is loaded in the back.
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The shield is 24g, it would seem enough. but actually only 2/3 of the shield would be in the front, that makes 8g in the back, countered by 16g in the front, in the end 8g in the front as a count weight for that 7g of the spear. the things are placed at a slant, but that's how I figure it to work, roughly, it's not rocket science.
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If that's not enough still, I have 2 back up solution.
One is to dig a 2mm channel along the length of the barrel, put a 2mm brass rod in there. The thing balance on my figure like this.
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The other is to drill the hole into the mouth of the barrel, stuff some lead bead in there. It's a lot easier, but I'll have to worry about the weight bending the barrel over time, it may not, but I'll have to bite my nail.
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So why don't I lean the thing more forward? The whole point of this build is to prove how leaning back work. I'd rather pin it to a base than to have this
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Did I ever mention there is shading, it's very muted
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 9 2018, 05:55 AM.
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ingenhk
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Silhouette priority. If it's not clean and identifiable, the pose is probably not good.
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The shield in the end is going to take this away, but I still want to have it regardless.
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After testing with counterweight and most heavy things installed, it stands but still not stable, it's very likely there will be accident if I intend this to be displayed for 20 years.
I tested how an acrylic base would look, 15cm diameter, 5mm think, looks quite good.
Because of the lean back, from high angle it doesn't look like turd.
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Majestic~!
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But then remember I have tilted the chest up slightly earlier, I figured I could adjust the ankle to shift the weight forward. So I did(Yes I immediately back paddled from my last post). Turned out there isn't any need for counterweight now.
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The face now still level with the Jade Temple demo.
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It's now similar to the LED I've pinned up earlier. For the SR3 I wished to lean back more but I compromised, it's still with in 'my margin' of a basic posture.
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BTW, MH is make of frame and armor, there is no meat as written on the Design book, this is how I look at the emptied back of the thigh.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 10 2018, 06:58 AM.
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ingenhk
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In this update, there are minor changes but took me very long, longer than have them pinned in the first place.
Mostly just fine tuning things.

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close up on that skirt part, there are dishing on each surfaces, to clean off this nub, you can't just use a sanding block, have to remove it little by little, roll up sand paper or figure out better way to fit into just that spot.
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On the MM, of course all sides are done by graining on a sanding block.
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I over looked one important aspect of this sculpt while pinning the right arm and spear.
It's obscuring the back of the head from these angles. We can't have that can't we?! Without showing the back of the head, the entire build would be a failure, utterly pointless, why do I even exist?
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Improved.
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Witness the glory!
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Dijeh right shoulder has something similar, on that one it symbolized a cocoon and transformation, it's beautiful when you see the intent. Don't be like uh, I'm so not used to seeing this, it's bad. Forever browsing for something that is immediately appealing, like switching TV channel every 4 seconds.
On the other hand, I also despise it when I heard people say 'This was so good when I was 13', 'The CG dinosaurs in Jurassic Park still hold up, better than CG nowaday'. They are just lying to themselves, pretty much no standard for what is good. Can't separate quality, from their attachment to something that is actually sh!tty but meant something to them back when they didn't know better.
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The left is from earlier, at first I wanted to show the knee, the hand, blue patch and the top side of the shield.
But the way it is placed, made the leg look like a trunk, like the Wave version.
So I tilted the shield more up the knee, turned its surface facing more to the ground to make it thinner.
Now both the arm and the leg look cleaner.
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When I lowered the spear by adjusting the wrist, it left a wider gap under the armpit, since the elbow was crooked to crouch the spear. the elbow, upper arm also have to be re pinned.
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Now the spear has been moved out of the way, the silhouette also received an upgrade.
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The left one is from earlier, the back of the spear was fused with the shoulder.
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Another example of Iku's thicker right side, the back of the head, I'll just keep the head straight and leave it that way, not going to try to fix it. You just can't touch the signature form of this part, despite the artifact. Like each musician has their own way to pluck a string and stuff, no matter how good a modeler you are, the thing you worked on is not going to replicate those personal touch.
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I intended to show just enough of the inside of the shield.
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I don't follow the placement from the line art, just want it to give out similar impression. Because the drawing doesn't work for viewing from other angles.
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Some details like how the back end of the spear is oriented. Nagano drew with medieval perspective, I simply rotate the spear to make it look similar.
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Previously the spear and the shield looked almost parallel from this angle, I also have to place them at just a little different angle. To keep things from looking static.
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I was thinking of this back when I was finishing up the Sleipnir
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 14 2018, 09:10 AM.
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ingenhk
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I took apart both arms and repinned them yet again.
On the right is the current state.
It seem no difference, the reason I did this was because the arm used to look longer.
Both arms in the pictures appear to be the same length, but if you take a step back, the left(old) one seems to have bigger arms.
This also serve as a proof of concept for shrinking the arm on later WSC Neptune or Jade Temple,
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With the extra part, red edges show how much longer it became
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Normal arm
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With the extra part, bending 90 degree.
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The most current elbow connection, the red edges are kept close to keep the length, yet extended a little to allow more bend
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https://twitter.com/mariaria108_new/status/985079456174755840
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 17 2018, 05:59 AM.
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ingenhk
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Spurs, side of the knee parts, arm cable and elbow stuff, ears(not shown)
no rant today, you can have a break, but maybe I will! scroll down to find out.
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From this angle you see that shifted heel in effect.
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for the cables I let them loose like the Gastness, last time the Vatshu was a bit tight.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 19 2018, 11:42 AM.
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ingenhk
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I also put on the manga version, Knight flags version is a bit underwhelming in term of spatial composition.
Edited by ingenhk, Apr 20 2018, 11:19 AM.
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ingenhk
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So I repinned something after studying the video.
On the ankles, it's slightly more leaned back. Right arm is more pulled back so the spear is pointed more down and to the right, just slightly
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From this angle in the video, it appeared very lean forward. looks like blackroom, then I felt distaste toward it.
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It's lacking poise, this, is an example of having poise.
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It's not impossible to find people standing with sway back, in various car shows, and that's where I found poise. You would think people can't stand like this but they do.
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It's why Iku sculpted the torso with the sway back.
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I don't think other sculptors/builders understand the intent, they just adopted that swayed torso, and shifted forward hip joint, but what's the point of having a swayed back torso and then leaned it forward to nullify the effect? I think the back and the buttock need to protrude like this.
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I remembered back in 2007-9 people on forums are pointing out how WSC display is pinned with 'too much' leaning back. perhaps Ikushima don't understand why he sculpted the torso like that, like he messed up? But they know better of course.
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How the Empress would be pinned
What? what's that? it's bad alignment? oh poor baby here have a cookie. *puffed face
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 22 2018, 12:11 PM.
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electric indigo
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What I took from the Engage sketch (without understanding the japanese text) is that the segment of armor above the shoulder joint is meant to align horizontally, and then everything else follows that alignment. I don't know if it's always the same principle on other WSC kits.
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ingenhk
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The drawing show horizontal, and then the text says to slightly tilt down(slope to the front).
Sometime there isn't any horizontal reference on designs like Ashura Temple.
I used to keep the shoulder horizontal, but then I think doing that all the time things tend to look static, so now I'm allowing a bit of leeway for tilting forward or backward just a little. For example Speed Mirage head would look tilt down/forward instead of straight up, Prominence's horns would be backward.
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Fitted it onto a base, it's the same one that is used in the video.
15cm wide, 5mm thick, the face is landed on the center. I used just 6mm length of 1mm rods, 3mm deep on both sides, no glue, it could be detached for the photoshoot, except it would be difficult to line up the hole to the pins after everything is installed.
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Always liked Tyte round base on the Phantom. But I want to keep using the same base for all of my future builds, instead of changing the styling for each one.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 23 2018, 06:53 AM.
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I've noticed a couple of builds have tilted the shoulder up, like the later Jade Temple.
At first I wanted to recreate just the Iku's vision of the sculpt when it came out.
But then, after the release of Jade Temple, WSC did build another 'Early Type' with tilted up shoulders.
then I decided to tilt them as well.
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Now the entire frame look different, less wide, the head seems lowered, side effect being the arms are shorter. It's not to be considered a mod because it's simply pinning the free-joint on the shoulders at a different angle.
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Beside more looking like the impression from Vol.2,3. Just now it also has more of the original L-Gaim in it.
25 days have passed, it's still in this state.
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It was in 2007, the blue version came with 2005 edition of Vol.2(as Junchoon early type)
http://www.workshop-cast.co.jp/report/cast_wf0702.html
Edited by ingenhk, Apr 25 2018, 09:15 AM.
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Pure rant only
some bullsh!t
http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/artist-recreates-barbie-to-look-like-an-average-woman.html
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I mean, either of those are ok to me.
Just that when speaking of 'Pure white maiden', people would be like: "I know, it must mean this consumerism nurtured perception of a feminine figure"
That Iku Sr3 doesn't adhere to this standard, therefore Iku doesn't know what it takes to be a Pure white maiden.
I think they are the one who don't get pure white maiden instead, only on a superficial level.

With the Neptune, if people make comparison to the panels from Vol.11, on the surface, nothing wrong if they find the SAV adhered to those panels.
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But that's the extend of it, only look at the panels.
Iku went beyond just the panels. he took only tiny details and expressions from these panels, while his sculpt itself has multiple aspects, including world setting, character arc, the legacy of the design both in-universe and out of.
Then of course when people compare it to the panels only, it doesn't speak to them. because it simply is not about that.
If they think Iku doesn't know the Neptune more than they do, they are wrong, it's not their different opinions, but straight up being wrong about the matter.
To put it in a few words, this one when you look at it, you know this thing moved on its own to protect Christine at some point, it's been there, and has became this now. Same things goes for the SR3 and Ulicle, not just how they look but what they did, where they've been. Other models don't do that, say none of the Eva 01 look like it's the one that moved on its own in ep01, you never see shinji mom in the model, just some cool robots.
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 27 2018, 06:57 AM.
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long , non sticky type of epoxy
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Since I want the smoothness of this type of epoxy(I used a different type for pinning), the con being it is not sticky, so I added CA glue in between the side I want it to adhere to, and de-molding agent on the other side.
Press them together lightly, trimmed away the excess.
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then press again, firmly this time, refine the edges, add or remove material.
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a gap between the plam and the spear
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and the neck here
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 28 2018, 02:55 PM.
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Monsterist76
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I used this technique on my KAN, learned from your blog's resin tutorial. I used Milliput Superfine. Baby powder was all I had, the first time I tried it, to keep it from sticking. It worked fine but I got some petroleum jelly and will be using that instead from here on out. Just need to make sure you thoroughly remove it with alcohol afterwards to ensure good paint adhesion. I think the superglue is key. I doubt the Milliput would've stayed in place otherwise.

I left all clean up until after the putty had cured, but you refine it and blend it into the resin part when it is still soft, yes? Maybe I'll try that next time; I also need to fill the gap between the abdomen and the chest, like this:

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ingenhk
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Yes, when it was soft, the key there is to have the pin secured first, so nothing wiggle when you work on it, the fit afterward would be near perfect.
At this stage the blending is not perfectly flush, that will have to be sanded. Just make sure to leave more material then less, for the purpose of filling, so you don't have to fill that many dent later, simply by sanding excess away.

Thinking of colors
Last time this glacier blue didn't work out with the Sleipnir. It's pretty much the same color on the HL1.
I figure I must be using green white for the later Berlin and Jade Temple.
Maybe I would use some of that GTM color to have some variety.
Brown frame would be of L-gaim legacy, but GTM color is also tempting.
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but then
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Edited by ingenhk, Apr 29 2018, 04:52 PM.
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Figured I should add some filler on the inside of the ankles.
Heated up pla-plate, simply it's a mudflap.
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Usually I don't care about internal but this empty spot spoiled the Iku calf line
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